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Post by Gront on Mar 18, 2012 2:01:50 GMT -5
Ladies and gentlemen (presumably just gentlemen now that Grim's gone, but just in case I've forgotten someone I'll leave it in there), I know we've all thought SPB was dying in the past, but up until now, I don't think we've truly been in danger of going under. We've had lulls, but they've never lasted this long before, and our active membership is the lowest it's been since I showed up. I'm posting this now because I believe that this will be our last chance to save SPB. If we go much longer without changing something, I am confident that this will be nothing more than a memory before long. If we are to act, it must be now.
I realize that, whether it should or not, a disproportionate amount of the responsibility for resuscitating Brawl falls upon my shoulders since I am (as of now) solely in charge of the website. I wonder sometimes whether we'd be in this predicament if I'd have worked on the website rather than my own projects, but I suppose it's irrelevant now. Even if I have the largest responsibility, I most certainly do not have the only responsibility. As I've said time and time again, SPB is, above all else, about the community. I doubt any of you would still be here were it not for the people you've met here. It is for that reason I am calling upon all of you for assistance. I've put the website on the backburner, and aside from a question about its progress every few months, no one has seemed to notice. I've lost the sense of purpose I felt when I started working on it, and I think this mirrors the decline of SPB itself. We've lost sight of our purpose, and the only way we'll make any kind of comeback is by finding it again. We need a goal to work towards, and I need all of you to help me define the goal. So, in an ideal universe, what do you think the future of SPB should hold? Try to keep your ideas general, but don't be afraid to get wordy if you have to. I will read every word, and consider all things said without prejudice. Even if the new guy says something.
On the other hand, if you guys are content with SPB being simply a fond memory, I completely understand. All things must end in time, and if now is Brawl's time, so be it. But if you believe SPB's still got some life in it (or like me, simply want to believe it), then now is the time to wake up and prove that we've got something left to fight for. I'll be waiting to hear (or not hear) from you all.
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pm
Apprentice
[M0n:-295]
..Huh?
Posts: 249
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Post by pm on Mar 18, 2012 3:05:02 GMT -5
I feel the biggest problem comes from what makes the site great. You have to draw comics of people fighting other people, that takes effort, it can take a lot of effort and frankly a lot of people are lazy. If it isn't a hunk of crap it'll be difficult to make and too many people aren't willing enough to put in all the effort consistantly. Finding new blood with that trait is difficult and many of the people here still don't have it really. I'm not saying people need to spend a heap of time dedicated to this site to pump out cool ass fightan comics erry day but we can barely manage to keep many things going now.
I'm just saiyan we don't just need people, we need the right kind of people, the kind of people who really want to contribute and have fun with the site and aren't lazy or douchebags about it. But that can be a bit much to ask. I try my best and just get what I want to show done and that's exactly what I want other people to do aswell. I'm not saying I'm not lazy at times and that I get everything I want done I just want to people to put content out and make this site more fun so people would be a bit more inspired to keep making things for the site to keep it alive. In my opinion Grent has barely more responsibility for the site than any one of us since he is also a contributer, this site is based around a community and it's up to that community to step up and do something rather than stand around throwing ideas and complaining about the sites decline. We all want to see the site alive again.
I have nothing to say on the technical structure of the site, I don't know enough about that kind of stuff to know what to say.
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Post by destructin on Mar 18, 2012 3:36:14 GMT -5
I've mentioned how I see SPB before, but I'll say it again with more elaboration this time.
SPB started as a bunch of kids continuing to draw comics about stickmen fighting when a newgrounds thread was locked. I joined around the middle of 2008, because McJesus saw my art on NG, and when I joined, I found it hella fun, and over time, I made some good friends, irreplaceable friends. SPB also helped me improve my art by alot, and I feel I wouldn't be the same level I am now if it wasn't for SPB. I see SPB as an art community, an art community that will help each other grow as an artist, and have fun doing it. We are also a role-playing forum, and this should be very prioritized, SPB feeds on contribution to Main Arena and Grudge Matches, if a person participates, some people get interested, which makes even more people interested. We all either make threads for easy and plain brawling, or to try for all of us to collaborate in making a story, contribution is really important.
Moving to the art side of things again, there's a site sort of similar to SPB called Entervoid.com, where they inspect your art to check if you are an elite artist, and if you're not, you can't join. I want SPB to accept newcomers with open arms and let them have fun and help them in what they need to improve in art. We shouldn't elitist dicks, and I've known SPB to be a community who loves to argue alot, but I hope that we can all finally grow up and stop arguing in what are pointless things. I also would want none of us to belittle anyone anymore, and seriously learn to respect, we should be known as a good community, not a second Newgrounds or a FacePunch, or a bunch of elitist douches.
SPB can become something far greater than a stick figure fighting forum, I know it can.
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Post by DJGrandPa on Mar 18, 2012 3:43:37 GMT -5
Every single one of us are lazy fucks, and the site has been active in spite of that (even though it sure has dealt its own amount of punches.) The problem sure as hell isn't that we must totally stop trying to put effort into drawings, instead, I think we need more "easy access" threads, and how should we go on makin them?
I'd say just try to not go through your entire day going "oh well, spb needs fixing and NOW!!!" and just try to raise a few old threads, create some new if you feel like it. I've said this a million times already, but nobody listens. If you always think "well this place is dead, we should bring some life into it", it will die down soon after anyway, because people will feel obligied to do it, and as I've already pointed out: people here are generally lazy.
Spontaneous action is what this place needs. I would have tried to kickstar a thread or two here, but my internet's all out of bandwidth, and I can't always get all the drawings to load, so I wouldnt be able to keep my drawings fluent. Also, I think we should all stop with the hostile environment that has been going on lately.
There, now does anyone have any criticism to this method? I'd love to hear it.
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Post by Bulet on Mar 18, 2012 4:19:42 GMT -5
Alright, I'll throw in my perfect image of SPB:
To those who were in Newgrounds, they probably remember the thread gaining several pages every day. It was insanely popular and pics were posted almost every hour. There were really good artists, there were those who drew sticks (badly), but they still had lots of fun. Everyone had fun there and anyone who says that they didn't enjoy the NG thread is lying.
That's my vision, how SPB would look in the best case scenario, just packed full of people. I don't really care about the quality of the drawings, everyone starts out small. Like Des, and many before him said, this community drastically improves people's art. We'll direct new people to become great artists.
But the most important part for me is people. People. There are around 6-ish regulars on the site, and I believe that's why the forums are slow. We aren't lazy, we want to draw when others draw. Back at Newgrounds I spat out a pic every day, because I was carried by the flow.
Now people might say "Well if we just need people why do we need a new site/new layout/forum cleanup?". Because imagine this scenario: New guy hears about forum from another guy, he comes on the site and looks at forums. "Nothing special" he thinks. He draws a stick figure, maybe one or two drawings get thrown around but that's the end of it. In order to keep our new members, we need something pleasant to the eye (If not a new site, a better looking forum). If you think the forum in it's current state is "just fine", IMO, you're avoiding the issue.
I'm very open to arguements, discussion and flame wars
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Post by DJGrandPa on Mar 18, 2012 7:40:18 GMT -5
I dont think no one's saying that there are no flaws, hell I ain't even saying that you're not allowed to talk about em. It's just that talking about them (especially in such a great length as we do) will probably just make the problem worse. People'll feel as if they're obligable (is that how you say it?) to do something, and that's when they lose their will.
Sooo... still, no one has denounced my idea... I think it's the best way to do it, but no one seems to acknowledge it, I'm interested in what you have to say about it.
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Post by Spawner on Mar 18, 2012 9:06:08 GMT -5
I'll keep contributing to threads and drawing pictures, but that only works is people reply to them. I'll also keep talking about SPB to my friends too, a couple of them have already signed up and drawn pictures. I don't know if they'll stick around yet though, try and make them feel welcome. Does that sound like a good idea to everyone?
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Post by Bulet on Mar 18, 2012 9:15:03 GMT -5
I dont think no one's saying that there are no flaws, hell I ain't even saying that you're not allowed to talk about em. It's just that talking about them (especially in such a great length as we do) will probably just make the problem worse. People'll feel as if they're obligable (is that how you say it?) to do something, and that's when they lose their will. Sooo... still, no one has denounced my idea... I think it's the best way to do it, but no one seems to acknowledge it, I'm interested in what you have to say about it. We're not forcing people to do anything really. The last thing we want is people to feel like they MUST do something here. We gave off the wrong vibe when we first came here, like "ALRIGHT TIME FOR OVERHAUL, EVERYONE FOLLOW MEEE", and we're trying to change that. :V Your idea goes without saying. We're all trying to draw as much as we can these days. New ideas for threads would be wonderful, if anyone has something new, by all means, go ahead and I'll try to participate as much as I can. |
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Post by DJGrandPa on Mar 18, 2012 9:56:21 GMT -5
Yeah, you sure didnt do a good first impression onto me, and I havent heard many good things about you (not trying to cause an argument or something, just stating facts, hell, you probably havent gotten a good first impression of me either), but what I mean is that even by just saying "We should really do something about this place, yeah, let's make it active", still makes it feel like it's something you, maybe not must, but should do, which makes it a chore of sorts, even though it (obviously) isn't.
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Post by Bulet on Mar 18, 2012 10:09:41 GMT -5
I did come in strong, at it may look like I've just opened this site one day and started spouting bullshit but I've been lurking this place since a while back. I came here almost every day, and I've been looking how much people improved, I'm really amazed. I don't know from whom you've heard bad things about me, but that's okay, I can think of a lot of reasons not to like me. :P
Don't think I don't like you, DJ. You're art is pretty nice, you're a cool guy in general, and you're just looking out for SPB. I'll try to repair my rep from now on, sorry for all the drama caused.
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Post by DJGrandPa on Mar 18, 2012 10:30:22 GMT -5
I'm horrible with names, so if I say something about you, you should be like... at least 90% certain it's someone else, but I know that I've heard that some of the guys in this... uhm... "Revival movement" (?) aren't exactly being polite, so to say. I myself have no opinion on you other than what I've been seeing with my own eyes this week, which I cant really say anything about.
But hey, you seem cool in my book, you acknowledge that you were behaving badly instead of just totally changing opinions out of the blue whenever it fits, like some of the others I've seen here... but I guess you'll have to pm me about this if you wanna continue, because this is off topic.
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Post by Gront on Mar 18, 2012 14:54:02 GMT -5
Quick note on the whole "cleanup/reset" idea: if we move to the new site, it's probably going to happen. Not because it should happen, but because it will be almost impossible to move years of threads from a proboards forum to any forum that is not proboards. I would need the full cooperation of the proboards staff and a lot of luck that their system and mine somehow turn out to be similar (which I sincerely doubt).
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Post by Bulet on Mar 18, 2012 15:15:56 GMT -5
Wait so you mean we won't have our proboards threads on the site? Well I didn't really expect to herd all these memories to a new website, I understand it can be complicated because proboards forums and coded forums don't work the same. I say let's just keep proboards here, and lock every thread, if we move to the website, in order to preserve the (un)holiness of this place in it's first years.
Maybe I'm not getting this, care to elaborate?
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Post by Gront on Mar 18, 2012 15:20:31 GMT -5
Wait so you mean we won't have our proboards threads on the site? Well I didn't really expect to herd all these memories to a new website, I understand it can be complicated because proboards forums and coded forums don't work the same. I say let's just keep proboards here, and lock every thread, if we move to the website, in order to preserve the (un)holiness of this place in it's first years. Maybe I'm not getting this, care to elaborate? Nope, that's exactly what would happen. Everything here would be locked, and we'd basically start over, with a link to this forum somewhere on the new site. |
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Post by Spawner on Mar 19, 2012 19:11:54 GMT -5
Sorry if this is like the complete opposite of what you're trying to do, but what if the SPB.com skin was made default, then, since it looks just like the site, the site could continue to link here, and this forum be given a domain (ProBoards does let you buy a domain, right?)? With a similar name to superpaintbrawl.com So that way, the site can have all sorts of awesome shit on it like rules and guides and whatever else you intended to put on the site, with a huge ass button than links here. You'd have to have a link to the forums part of superpaintbrawl.com anyway, right? So why not make it link here and clean up the old topics. It would be way easier and take a lot less time if this is possible. Thoughts? EDIT: I looked up buying a domain for proboards to make sure I wasn't being retarded and found this thread support.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=support&action=display&n=1&thread=32072 using that (if it's possible or if it works, I didn't read the thing fully since I don't understand this completely), couldn't this forum be renamed to forums.superpaintbrawl.com? |
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Post by Bulet on Mar 20, 2012 8:03:18 GMT -5
Sorry if this is like the complete opposite of what you're trying to do, but what if the SPB.com skin was made default, then, since it looks just like the site, the site could continue to link here, and this forum be given a domain (ProBoards does let you buy a domain, right?)? With a similar name to superpaintbrawl.com So that way, the site can have all sorts of awesome shit on it like rules and guides and whatever else you intended to put on the site, with a huge ass button than links here. You'd have to have a link to the forums part of superpaintbrawl.com anyway, right? So why not make it link here and clean up the old topics. It would be way easier and take a lot less time if this is possible. Thoughts? EDIT: I looked up buying a domain for proboards to make sure I wasn't being retarded and found this thread support.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=support&action=display&n=1&thread=32072 using that (if it's possible or if it works, I didn't read the thing fully since I don't understand this completely), couldn't this forum be renamed to forums.superpaintbrawl.com? We already have sonofbalto.proboards.com which is as close as you can get to an actual domain with proboards. Maybe rename it to superpaintbrawl.proboards.com or something (Since why the fuck did you name this forum "sonofbalto", Balto?), if that's possible |
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Post by destructin on Mar 20, 2012 16:22:10 GMT -5
It's better for Grent to code a forum from ground up, since he can tweak it to his own desire, and not have to deal with how limited proboards is, and besides, why would he have to pay for the site and a forum at the same time?
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Post by Spawner on Mar 21, 2012 17:53:47 GMT -5
$14 for a custom domain (forums.superpainbrawl.com) sounds pretty reasonable for a year.
I'd be more than willing to give a couple of dollars towards yearly cost if you needed me to. I just don't really see why it's gotta be from the ground up when proboards exists, it's not THAT limited is it? I mean, have we run into any problems with it's limitations so far?
EDIT: Goddamnit, me, proofread your shit.
EDIT EDIT: Not trying to belittle Grent's skills or anything, I have no idea how good he is, but can he really make something better than ProBoards on his own?
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Post by Gront on Mar 21, 2012 22:40:08 GMT -5
The limitations of proboards that Des refers to are not problems with the forum system as much as things that could be done better for a group that focuses on posting pictures like we do. For example, ever tried to use the attachment system on proboards? Shit is annoying. Plus, if I was to code forums for us, we could have a function where you could see only posts that are part of the match, or a tab on your profile page that leads to your roster for easier access. And while I'm a master programmer, I really wouldn't have to be in order to have the requisite skill to make a forum. Databases are relatively easy to make, and pup is a cinch to learn once you already know other languages. The reason it's not already done is because it's time-consuming; not because it's hard. |
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Post by Zarth on Mar 22, 2012 15:24:16 GMT -5
I'd like to see SPB evolve into a game like tera online, and having a similar fighting mechanic that game has, or something similar to dark souls, but faster. none of that "take turns hitting one another" or having to hope your attacks either hit or miss by chance. (even thought you say the attack make contact, there is still a chance of it 'missing")
if you wanted to dodge a persons attack ,you would manually move your character out of the way of the attack being directed at you.
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Post by Bulet on Mar 22, 2012 15:35:01 GMT -5
No.
This isn't a videogame. Doing that will limit people's creativity and art. Why would you want to say to someone "no you cant do this you dont have enough power points to do it no no".
Brawl Mart/Inventories/Items your character can use in battle is pushing it by limiting what you can use, but that's as far as it goes.
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Post by Zarth on Mar 22, 2012 15:52:16 GMT -5
No. This isn't a video game. Doing that will limit people's creativity and art. Why would you want to say to someone "no you cant do this you don't have enough power points to do it no no". Brawl Mart/Inventories/Items your character can use in battle is pushing it by limiting what you can use, but that's as far as it goes. We were trying to make an SPB game before. It was a small flash one for NG. it was actually coming along nicely. Those who could help did help. After a while, everyone lost their motivation to actually finish the game. Which happens a lot to first time game developers. We had a goal, but we lost sight of it. Keeping SPB as nothing more then some sort of forum game is a great way to kill it. it'll sit on the Internet and be forgotten as the community that once populated it move on. Turning it into an online game can, and will ensure a long life to come. Look at it right now. Sure, there's a new spark of life stirring around, but how long will that last before everyone moves onto something else again? I had a lot of other idea for a SPB game, things that could possibly make it really fun. but I'd rather not start listing off all the ideas in this thread. maybe I'll make a separate thread for my ideas another time. Having an online game and a classic forum game counter part could coexist well with one another. If such a game were to be built. People could use the forums to create their own characters and fight one another, and maybe be spotted by the producers of the game, and have their character (or abilities) be implemented into the game. It'll make people want to play the forum version because it'll give them an incentive to help add new content by demonstrating how their character (or abilities) would function in a fight in the game. |
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Post by destructin on Mar 22, 2012 16:25:24 GMT -5
Lies. The SPB game never came out nicely. Nobody but me, MVG, and Balto worked on sprites. Me being the only one to finish one character, but because we were all serious limited in animation, we all stopped working. The SPB game was a project doomed to fail.
The last thing we need right now is to make a game, or anything but a complete site and forum.
And the only way I see SPB turned into something else is an actual comic book publication, but that's way too far.
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Post by Zarth on Mar 22, 2012 16:42:18 GMT -5
Lies. The SPB game never came out nicely. Nobody but me, MVG, and Balto worked on sprites. Me being the only one to finish one character, but because we were all serious limited in animation, we all stopped working. The SPB game was a project doomed to fail. The last thing we need right now is to make a game, or anything but a complete site and forum. And the only way I see SPB turned into something else is an actual comic book publication, but that's way too far. That may be but, it started out nicely, everyone enjoyed working on it, it brought out a lot of productivity. yes we were limited in animation, and still are. Apparently I didn't help at all with the game.I never said that we should start working on a SPB game ASAP. That is obviously out of the question, especially one that is 3D. But maybe later down the road when some of us have had sufficient training in animation and the other factors that are needed to build a game, maybe then we could try again. Making a comic isn't nearly as far away as an actual game. We all still lack the art skills to actually create something as great as that, but we're trying. Every day we get a little better with our art. we just need to stop half assing (me included) our work, because that actually harms our progression as artists. |
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Post by Gront on Mar 22, 2012 16:42:31 GMT -5
I would consider having a game aspect to SPB much later down the line. There's a lot of potential for a fighting game or even maybe an MMO, but for those, I'd need a larger, more experienced team than we currently have. Also, they'd never replace the forums, only supplement them. I appreciate the input on the potential distant future of SPB, I do think we need to pull it into something more manageable for a goal. Before we even consider making a game again, I'd want a lot more people than we currently have, so that we can possibly gain some more game-oriented artists and/or a programmer or two. To do grunt work of course, no one will ever be a better programmer than me.
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Post by Zarth on Mar 22, 2012 16:51:50 GMT -5
When it comes to making a game, I would probably have enough experience to help build it when the time came.
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Post by Shackles on Mar 22, 2012 19:20:35 GMT -5
Keeping SPB as nothing more then some sort of forum game is a great way to kill it. it'll sit on the Internet and be forgotten as the community that once populated it move on. Wait, what? Zarth, SPB is not the only site that does this OC roleplaying format. It's not a 'forum game' that we invented. There are tons of hugely successful sites that are about roleplaying with original characters like this. Entervoid had hundreds of users and you need to be really good at drawing to even be able to participate there, there are original character tournaments on DeviantART that people even make animations for, and there's lots of roleplaying forums that are nothing but text, even. Making a fighting game or something would be cool, but it wouldn't be like it's the next step up from character roleplaying and the entire future of SPB should be some MMO where characters on the site are NPC's or something like that. The biggest threat to SPB isn't that we are not trying to make it into a massive online videogame. |
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